Page 1 of 2

Pre-release 1.5.305.3 Notes...

Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:58 pm
by dthempel
Release 1.5.305.3 brings significant changes to the ANT+ stack and, as a result, we'd like to ask for as much feedback as possible as you test these changes. This release is ATG-exclusive in order to give you time to thoroughly test the software, and for our team to make any required changes too. Please make sure to keep us updated with any feedback and absolutely report any bugs or issues you encounter.

What's new in release 1.5.305.3
New features and improvements:
This release deploys a new ANT+ stack that sets us up for adding new integrations, Power Meter calibration, and sensor battery status. Because of the significance of this change, we are looking for ATG members to provide as much feedback as possible prior to us releasing this software to the general public.
Overhauled the Quick Settings Menu with improved graphics and quick access WiFi, cellular, auto-pause, and sensor enable/disable switches. This menu also shows current position in latitudinal and longitudinal coordinates.
Added new graphic data-fields for heart rate and power zones, featuring responsive circular animations. These fields are now options when creating or editing page sets. If you already have a HR or power zone field on a page, you must remove it and re-add it.
Graphically enhanced average speed, power, and cadence fields have been added, which include color indicators of whether average is rising or falling. Also, when an average field is the only data field on a page, users will see another visual enhancement.
Revised the Settings Menu. This includes font improvements and moving the System Update option from the About sub-menu to the main Settings Menu.
TBT instructions are now shown when riding on a route but not having started a ride/activity.
Introduced a new, full-color boot animation.

Bug Fixes:
Fixed an issue where the Ride App displays blank datafields when starting a ride.
Activities no longer disappear from the launcher if user minimizes the ride and then changes themes from the quick launch menu.
Fixed a problem where Karoo was not automatically setting the time and timezone through internet connectivity.
Resolved the issue causing TbT Instructions not to be shown on data screens.
Ride recovery mechanism no longer recovers extremely short rides (less than 5 minutes in length).
Fixed an issue where the ride notification slide-out is not removed if the ride was started by clicking on the status bar rather than on the slide-out.

Features in Progress:
We’re continuing to work on restructuring the essence of Karoo. The first step down this path was making it possible to start the ride app without initially starting a ride recording. The next step will be introducing changes to preserve battery life both during a ride and when Karoo is completely idle (like sitting on your desk). These changes will take several releases to realize. For now, we suggest manually powering off Karoo when not in use.
ANT+ additions move closer with the release of the updated ANT+ communications stack in this release.
Further enhancements of quick menu items and graphically augmented data averages fields.
Lap counter data field.

Dashboard Update V1.0.006:
Added “Duplicate Route” option to route popup menu in main routes list.
Start, end, and waypoint markers in Route Builder can now be dragged without having to first click on them.
Wider, more transparent route line in Route Builder, making it much easier to click on the line to insert a new waypoint.
Removed automatic zoom in Route Builder to frame the route after adding its second point.
Changed default mouse pointer in Route Builder to be crosshairs instead of hand
Fixed bug where route line would diverge slightly from true road locations.
Fixed bug where elevation gain shown in Route Builder differed from gain show in main routes list.

Thank you more than ever for ensuring the quality of Karoo's software ahead of public release. If you have any comments or bug reports, don't hesitate to contact us.

Re: Pre-release 1.5.305.3 Notes...

Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 5:02 pm
by dthempel
I will make a concerted effort to get a YouTube video up showing as many of these changes as possible. Particularly where those not in the ATG are going to have to wait near a month (?) to get it, I'm sure you'd like to see some of this in action. I likely won't be able to install and ride today due to a meeting after work (cycling club of all things), but will make effort to ride and video on Friday afternoon and hopefully quickly post some thoughts.

I'm interested to try -- and nervous about trying -- the ANT+ changes. My power meter has been on Bluetooth for months as it's stable and "accurate". Guess I need to try it out.

Just when I thought the road bike was going to stay on the basement trainer for a while...

Re: Pre-release 1.5.305.3 Notes...

Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 5:15 pm
by JohnJ80
This sounds like a really big update.

J.

Re: Pre-release 1.5.305.3 Notes...

Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 5:44 pm
by Steve
I guess the substantial changes in this release explain why the rest of us aren't going to see this actual release and instead will get the release following.

Given HH's appalling track record with regression, and a major change to the ANT+ stack, I'm pretty glad they're going to take a bit longer with this one. Let's hope it's worth the wait.

Re: Pre-release 1.5.305.3 Notes...

Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:16 pm
by JohnJ80
Agree. The current rev, at least for me, was fairly solid and reliable.

J.

Re: Pre-release 1.5.305.3 Notes...

Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 9:46 am
by Steve
Doug quickly showed me some of the new screens/menus last night, via Skype. Looks like a lot has changed.

Looking forward to the video, Doug!

Re: Pre-release 1.5.305.3 Notes...

Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 3:10 am
by dthempel
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jt5ZLGx2Ul8

Quite long, but hopefully it's useful. :)

Re: Pre-release 1.5.305.3 Notes...

Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 5:53 am
by Kevinphiltjens
Thanks for the video. Rather disappointing actually from HH.

I don’t understand why they have changed the font for the menu iso the font for the data fields. The font of the data fields in ride should be bold so that it is easier to read. Let’s hope the ant+ changes are handled well and that they are stable.

Re: Pre-release 1.5.305.3 Notes...

Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 12:46 pm
by JohnJ80
I didn't find the font difficult to read in the data fields. In fact, in the actual data fields on the unit, I didn't even notice they were different. Because of the awkward screen layout (which I believe is also due to be released and changed before 10/25), I only have 4 or 5 fields on a given screen to make them easy to read anyhow.

The new power and heart rate zones added do need some work there. The bubbles are too small and hard to see. The slider circle, for lack of a better term, has the actual heart rate in it and (I would presume) power number in it instead of the zone number. That is a good idea, but the font is minuscule and impossible to see especially if you're pushing hard. My guidance would be to use the same slider and box styling and put the heart rate or 3s power in that box with the same font they use for the power zone and in bold. Having graphical fields done in a quality way is one of the key differentiators for the Karoo potentially given the high res display. So doing this and fixing the formatting needs to be a primary activity at HH in order to stave off competition.

The average cadence value (and those sorts of fields added in this video) is a problem and I think they have it backwards. The real time cadence should be shown and the average should be indicated by the pip on the side - green if faster, yellow is the same, red if dropping. That is how it is done on some of the Garmin IQ apps and works well. Having the average and then showing the trend on the average is sort of like showing the derivative and it's second derivative which is starting to get a little esoteric. You don't really need to have an average and then an average trend indicator.

The metric I want to see is a cadence metric. You set the lowest and highest value, the Karoo scales them in between using the slider bar graphic with the actual cadence in the center box. Red if it's dropping, then yellow then green as you approach the center and high value. That would be so helpful, to be able to see cadence graphically while riding instead of having to see the number and then interpret the number as high, low or whatever.

The pull down control panel needs work. Not exactly sure what it should be, but that's not it. I have to think on that some more. As shown in this video, the turn on/turn off nature of all sensors doesn't correlate with what happens if you go back to the sensor app and turn on ANT+ or BTLE alone. Turning the sensor button off on the pull down menu and then turning just one of the two protocols on should not leave the global button on the pull down menu off.

Very anxious to see how this works with my stages power meters. I've been having an issue that just popped up today on the last public release where I had deleted a sensor but I couldn't add it back in again (specifically a stages power meter). Yet it works just fine on any other computer and it shows up as connected in the FIT file. So it's like Karoo deleted it from the sensor list but not from the internal list. But then it also doesn't display any data. So I did a factory reset and that seemed to cure it. We'll see.

FWIW, I did finally figure out how to bulk load side loaded apps and how to get them off the Karoo using the Android tools. I also figured out how to back them up. I also figured out how to get all the maps from Osmand etc... off of the Karoo and then be able to shove that all back down to the Karoo fast. So doing a factory reset if one side load apps just got a lot easier for me. Turns out Android is kind of messy with where they store app prefs so just backing up a given folder doesn't save all prefs. That said, Osmand does store their prefs with their downloaded maps, so that worked. Komoot doesn't care since it apparently downloads when you log into your account. My shell scripting skills are quite rusty from the days of being a developer, but I hope to get both the backup and the restore largely automated. Either way, it's not hard.

J.

Re: Pre-release 1.5.305.3 Notes...

Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 2:29 pm
by PeterVB
looking forward to the animated elevation as seen on the site

Re: Pre-release 1.5.305.3 Notes...

Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 5:06 pm
by nordog
I was riding my fatty around some 8.8 miles this afternoon, not only testing the Karoo that started the ride well over a mile into my ride but my Knee and a short section of trail. I did like the mileage & time of day at the bottom of the screen, it was very clear to see
Fatty ride.PNG
Fatty ride.PNG (1.69 MiB) Viewed 4095 times
Map of the ride is looking OK, will be much better on my OS maps but is down at the moment. All in all a good days riding off road and Karoo working fine but slow to start.

Re: Pre-release 1.5.305.3 Notes...

Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 8:52 pm
by Kevinphiltjens
Sorry,

Expressed myself badly: HH should adjust the font of the data name field. You can hardly see if it’s hr or power or whatever...

Re: Pre-release 1.5.305.3 Notes...

Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 3:57 pm
by JohnJ80
I would have to say the the new maps on the ATG dashboard look much better.

Re: Pre-release 1.5.305.3 Notes...

Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:00 pm
by RustedRoot
I hate to pee on this parade, but I have to bring up Hammehead's history of releasing new features which are wonky. The next one is ambitious and if it works, bravi, if it's not buttoned up, we'll still be mired in unhappy beta-land.

For those of you who want all the features that have been promised plus Android App integration, so do I, but I absolutely do not want this until the basics of the device are working, and they're not. Pushing for the new bells and whistles is jumping the gun, IMO. Here's what I'm talking about:

https://support.hammerhead.io/hc/en-us/ ... 0002234553

Re: Pre-release 1.5.305.3 Notes...

Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:14 am
by Steinello
... any news from the ATG testing-group ?

Re: Pre-release 1.5.305.3 Notes...

Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:56 pm
by dthempel
Steinello wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:14 am
... any news from the ATG testing-group ?
Like what? We didn't receive a new build this week.

Re: Pre-release 1.5.305.3 Notes...

Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 5:04 pm
by Steinello
... I thought it would make sense that they provide a new build for the testing-group.
... than the new build it's a surprise for all of us :mrgreen:

Re: Pre-release 1.5.305.3 Notes...

Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 5:11 pm
by dthempel
We got a build last week and I posted a video (which I think I linked) to YouTube. I realize it's a lot to watch, but I'm not sure I have the time to re-hash everything in text format, too, and there's the "picture/video is worth a thousands words" to consider. You can see it for yourself.

There's a bug in the mid-ride routing which they've acknowledged and are working on. Might be in the release version, too.

The new ANT+ connections seem to be better, at least for me and my Stages power meter. It's not devoid of dropouts, but they seem rare and brief enough to be tolerable and I'm not sure I don't have the same issue over Bluetooth or had with my old Garmin as I never reviewed FIT file data in depth before.

The new visual data fields for HR and Power are OK if you devote a large chunk of each page to them so that you can read the number. That said, there's some sort of display bug with that new feature (at least for me) where the graphic becomes laggy and at times unusable after about 30 minutes of riding.

I think that's a quick summary of new things or introduced bugs. I'll likely ride with the Karoo on Sunday, but am racing cyclocross on Saturday and don't use the Karoo for that...

Re: Pre-release 1.5.305.3 Notes...

Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 1:34 am
by nnovod
Has HH ever changed the software to fix bugs between when it's released to the early testing group and the general user community? I'm just curious because there have been some serious bugs, such as the blank screen one in the last release, found during testing but then not fixed before release. I would think the whole point of the early testing is to find AND fix such bugs before general release.

Re: Pre-release 1.5.305.3 Notes...

Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:34 pm
by dthempel
Frankly, I think their cadence is too fast to do that properly. We get an update on the Thursday before you do. Most people don't ride until the weekend. Assuming a bug is even found -- I don't know how big the ATG group is and we've no way to communicate amongst ourselves -- they don't seem to respond to anything until Monday. Assuming they can replicate, find the problem, and fix, that doesn't give any more time to test (for the ATG) group, so if they make one fix that breaks something else, there's no recourse.

What you're seeing now may be the "new normal"? Four weeks between updates? One week for the ATG to find stuff. One week for them to "fix" and release another test. Another week for ATG and then a release week? They've posted in a thread I started on the official forums that the ATG group is getting another go-'round this Thursday. It addresses at least one of the things I reported and showed via video related to the new visual data fields.