My Karoo Test Journal

Chat about Hammerhead's Karoo in general.
Scummer
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Re: My Karoo Test Journal

Post by Scummer » Mon Jul 02, 2018 6:09 am

Your battery issues are really odd. I took an 8 hours ride yesterday and it sucked down 85% battery.
Funny part about mine is, I got home, uploaded the rides to strava and all of a sudden it was at 1% battery. :D

But so far my Karoo is behaving from a battery standpoint. The only problem is still my cadence drop outs. 70% of my cadence was not reported on my ride yesterday. But power, heart rate, elevation was good. Not sure if that has to do with the QA or production tolerances for those units.

Thomas

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drisotope
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The post-reset long test

Post by drisotope » Fri Jul 06, 2018 3:29 pm

Just a few short days after the Karoo deciding to forget how to be a bike computer, I made sure everything was charged up and headed out on what I knew was going to be a very long and hard day. The Karoo did well. Battery life was quite good, I plugged in the battery pack at just short of 6 hours, when the Karoo reached 40%. I never bothered to switch the screen off all day. Brightness was set fairly low because I set out before sunrise, and I just never messed with the brightness. It was visible enough at ~30% brightness. I think I've probably had it set too bright for awhile. I still miss adaptive brightness.



Edge 520 / Karoo

Moving Time
6.54.05 / 6.56.52
Distance
108.04 miles / 108.77 miles
Avg. Speed
15.7mph / 15.7mph
Elapsed Time
9.29.27 / 9.29.23
Elevation
5,430ft / 5,456ft* (Strava corrected to 6,130ft)
Weighted Avg. Pwr
186W / 169W
Total Work
3,801kJ / 3,749kJ
Avg. Cadence
76rpm / 76rpm
Avg. Temperature
71ºF / 77ºF

It's genuinely strange to see the kJ numbers so close, and the average power numbers so far off-- there's definitely some different math goin on. With the amount of non-moving time, I'm fine with the differential brought about by auto-pause.

BTW, the Garmin just made it. Backlight off, it was at 11%. The Karoo might have made it. I wasn't going to find out. Got home with 97% battery, and an empty USB pack.

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drisotope
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Re: My Karoo Test Journal

Post by drisotope » Sun Jul 08, 2018 6:13 pm

Turned adaptive brightness on just before this morning's ride. Battery consumption just below 12% per hour, better than I've been getting lately with adaptive switched off. Go figure.

I do think I'm going to join the ranks of "do a factory reset after each major software update." I had never done a full reset before, and the Karoo has been much more consistent and well behaved since starting over. I'll sacrifice the half hour every other week if it means more stability.

Now if we could just download offline maps in one big chunk instead of a bunch of little pieces, that would sure be nice.

JohnJ80
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Re: My Karoo Test Journal

Post by JohnJ80 » Sun Jul 08, 2018 8:03 pm

My battery consumption has been gradually creeping upwards. Two updates ago it was at 8%/hr. Then after the last one it was round 10-11% per hour. With the 5 July updates it looks like it might be 12-13% per hour. Bad trend line.

RossA
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Re: My Karoo Test Journal

Post by RossA » Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:01 am

Complete a 121mile ride yesterday for Christie's Hospital and the Karoo worked flawlessly. Tracked the full ride with 36% battery left at the end (total time on was just short of 10hours). The return journey I used TBT again without problem.

Works out at about 6-7% per hour. Note for nearly two hours of this the Karoo was just sitting on my bike on auto pause.

No sensors connected.

JohnJ80
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Re: My Karoo Test Journal

Post by JohnJ80 » Mon Jul 09, 2018 8:50 pm

Once you auto pause, the GPS looks like it shuts off.

If you don't have any sensors going then BT and ANT+ are also probably off. Without any sensors, I don't think the spec of 10-15 hours is relevant anyhow.

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drisotope
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Re: My Karoo Test Journal

Post by drisotope » Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:18 am

Yeah, the battery life is an issue (for me) simply because it is so wildly inconsistent. During this morning's ride, the Karoo gobbled up 43% of the battery in 2h41m. That's terrible. Seeing as the day before it used 18% in 1h45m. I'm okay with 12% per hour with everything on. That works. But I can't get the same battery life on back-to-back rides. Something isn't right, as I used to average 8% and hour, with all the same sensors. I dunno.

Still not a dealbreaker-- I mean, I'm hoping Amazon has got some USB packs on sale for Prime Day-- I have a handlebar bag on my cross bike, I wouldn't mind throwing a 20,000mAh pack in there. Run the Karoo for a week.

JohnJ80
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Re: My Karoo Test Journal

Post by JohnJ80 » Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:56 pm

Worries me that Karoo has a 10-15 hours spec and the best I can do on the latest rev is 8-9. They have to keep it under 10% per hour or change the spec. Not pretty. I too was at 8%/hr (12.5hr), then it was 10%/hr (10 hrs) and now I'm at 11-12% (8-9hrs) and it doesn't seem to matter much what I do. That's for the last three revs respectively. The trend line is in the wrong direction and we're now significantly out of spec.

dthempel
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Re: My Karoo Test Journal

Post by dthempel » Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:01 pm

They can always says it's 10+ hours with no sensors and nav and call it "good"...

JohnJ80
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Re: My Karoo Test Journal

Post by JohnJ80 » Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:49 pm

Don't forget "display off and in airplane mode." That's about the only way I'd get there.

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drisotope
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Re: My Karoo Test Journal

Post by drisotope » Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:08 pm

This morning, no changes whatsoever-- 23% battery in 2h2m... so like, 25% better than Monday? Boggles the mind.

Also perhaps of note, the Journal may indeed get more interesting-- I've been selected for the Advanced Testers Group. Currently loading 1.5.143.3

:P

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drisotope
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Re: My Karoo Test Journal

Post by drisotope » Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:53 pm

First go on the pre-release 1.5.143, it's a mixed bag. Battery life seems slightly improved, but auto-pause and elevation are absolutely terrible. The Karoo was showing ~750ft of ascent at end of activity, but the same FIT file shows 908ft of ascent in GPXSee. The Garmin tallied 880ft.

Auto-pause did not appear to be working at all, as it added around NINE MINUTES in just 1h46m of activity time (moving time: Karoo 1h52m, Garmin 1h43m.) Temperature readout looks great-- no more of those spikes dropping to zero. I defaulted to the Edge for Strava upload, so I don't know if Strava would have cleaned it up. The numbers just looked... bad.

dthempel
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Re: My Karoo Test Journal

Post by dthempel » Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:34 pm

My experience was fine last night with the new software, although I guess I didn't dive into the details and also forgot to reset my elevation manually. Around here, we don't really look at ascent/descent as it's just generally so flat (by most standards).

I used TbT successfully and the new granularity of the turn indicators (tenths of miles and even feet as you approach a turn) were much improved. My numbers matched (closely enough) another rider using a Garmin.

Scummer
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Re: My Karoo Test Journal

Post by Scummer » Sun Jul 15, 2018 12:59 pm

Yesterday I rode my MTB. Garmin speed, cadence and heart rate sensor connected to that bike. Battery drain was less than 9% per hour. So that was cool. On the race bike with a PowerTap C1 I get between 11-12% per hour and the cadence is wack.
So it appears the cadence recording between the PowerTap and my Duotrap on my Trek seem to interfere with each other.
I'm waiting for the software update where maybe you can select which sensor should be used for recording in case you have more than one sensor that do the same thing.

dthempel
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Re: My Karoo Test Journal

Post by dthempel » Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:34 pm

I'm wondering if it's BTLE that's the real issue? I rode my CX bike for the last two days. I only have a cadence sensor and HR (chest strap) in use on that bike. Both I believe are setup ANT+ and I made sure to disable unused sensors. Yesterday's ride was about 13% use for 1:50 and that was while following a route *and* forcing the Karoo to re-route frequently. Today was about 20% usage for a little over 2:30. It does seem like the more sensors and data you have, the worse the battery life, which does make sense. Wish they could get power meters running better over ANT+ and I'd disable BTLE entirely since there'd be nothing for it to do...

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drisotope
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Re: My Karoo Test Journal

Post by drisotope » Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:08 am

That past couple of rides have been excellent on battery life, like 9% per hour. Auto-pause is still fudgy, but it's at least fudgy in both directions-- it will sometimes delay at stop for 6-7 seconds, but then delay on restart for 4-5 seconds, so the net loss is only around 2 seconds. This morning was a scant 24 second differential over 2 hours. Power numbers are very consistent. For a pre-release software package, this is pretty much the best they've done to date.

I keep forgetting to test the performance with the Garmin speed sensor. Mostly out of fear.

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drisotope
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Re: My Karoo Test Journal

Post by drisotope » Fri Aug 24, 2018 3:04 pm

Haven't updated in what... almost 6 weeks? That's because the Karoo is pretty much trouble-free now. It doesn't lose sensors (the Garmin does a full aphasia moment and loses everything about once an hour,) TBT works, and I have absolutely zero issues updating and downloading map sections.

Complaints? Sure. Battery life isn't so much bad as it is wholly unpredictable. Some days 9% per hour, others 15% per hour. But USB batteries are inexpensive, I've got good cables, and it's not really that hard to plug the thing into a 5,500mAh Anker pack and get 30+ hours of battery life.

Yeah, I'd really like better map contrast, and it sure would be nice to have a hundredths column for both speed and distance, but they're not exactly dealbreakers. AFAIC, the really loud complaints are coming from the folks with unrealistic expectations. They wanted the Karoo to do more than a Garmin right out of the gate-- Garmin has had well over a decade to work on their software, and many times, it's still garbage.

I continue to run 2 computers on the bars, but the Karoo gets the upload 95% of the time. The Garmin continues to do what it's always done: short me on distance and elevation, on every single ride. Consistently 10% low on ascent, and I average 400k feet of climbing per year. So getting shorted 40k feet a year (basically around a month's worth) is not great. Distance underreports 2-5%. I have to try to compensate for this by "overclocking" the rollout for the speed sensor-- I've set the circumference in the Garmin as 10% larger than in the Karoo, and the Garmin will still arrive with less miles. Auto-calibration? Forget it. It's shorted me as much as 10%-- 3 miles out of 30. At the end of the day, that's all a non-issue, really-- Strava will clean up everything, and replace all of the the gathered numbers with their own. Sometimes for the better, sometimes... not.

So I remain optimistic about the Karoo. I like seeing an update that just fixes/adds 3-4 things. Because it seems that when the <HH> boys try to do too much, everything suffers. I bought a second Wahoo Speed on Amazon Prime Day (for like 20 bucks) so I still haven't tested to see if the Garmin sensor works better yet. LOL.

dthempel
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Re: My Karoo Test Journal

Post by dthempel » Fri Aug 24, 2018 5:33 pm

I'm sort of in the same boat, which seems a bit unfair to the Karoo, i.e., that I only post when there's something to complain about. The Karoo has been alone on my bars for close to three months since I started my CX "training blocks". I've used my watch a couple of times for convenience or when I found the Karoo with a dead (or close to) battery, but other than that it's been fine and this is with the early ATG software for about a month (?).

That said, I wish things were moving faster and I *HATE* their new website and basically the lies that they're throwing out there about what it can do now, what it looks like now, and the lack of any timeline for these new features.

Since I don't do a lot of riding outside my local area (yet), I don't need the maps and TbT to be stellar. It's worked for me the last several times I've used, it thought, including re-routing and on-the-fly "take me home" style routing over cellular.

I worry about the health of the company, but the device has worked for me for a while now...

nnovod
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Re: My Karoo Test Journal

Post by nnovod » Sat Aug 25, 2018 2:18 am

I wish I could agree with you. On the positive side, I have had my Karoo, alone, for a while now. It has worked well for what sensors I have (HR and cadence) and elevation and speed/distance seem accurate. However, I have not been able to do any mid-ride routing, using my SIM card. That was really the main reason I purchased the Karoo. I actually expected to be able to do this with off-line maps, so I was very disappointed when that was delayed. Regardless, if I could do this with my SIM card that would make me happy for now. Problems I've had include Karoo saying that I don't have an internet connection, even though I know I do (or at least should) and Karoo saying something about the map not being off-line, even though I know it's been downloaded and is in use on the Karoo.

Are you doing anything special to get your Karoo working for mid-ride routing? I have done updates as they have come out but still can not get this to work with the latest software.

Finally, so that I can finish my complaining, an overall problem that makes this all very frustrating is that there is no way to know what has been fixed in each release. We are not allowed to see anything in the bug tracking system, including our own reports. It would be a huge help if we could see if they even think they've fixed bugs we report. The release notes are vague and typically fixes for major problems are listed as partial fixes without any details about which parts of the problems are fixed and which are not.

Sorry to rain on the parade. I was happy with the basics working and waiting for navigation to get better but now it's discouraging to never be able to get the navigation to work the way I want even after all the fixes they've claimed.

nordog
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Re: My Karoo Test Journal

Post by nordog » Sat Aug 25, 2018 9:01 am

Hi drisotope,
I rarely find problems with ether my lost Karoo or the replacement that I use these past two months, like you I attach my power pack like I have done 30 minutes ago as I did a very short ride to the shop and rather than have two records of today's riding I left it in auto pause as the battery is stated as 68% (my fault did not switch power off last night) the ride later this morning will be slow with our slower riders with lots of stop for coffee or for them to catch up after a climb etc.
In the past I only had my iPhone to record all my road or off road rides, not so good with my 1960's music playing the maps then the calls, now I can see at a glance were I am or were to go etc. as for the ride home section, I have no idea how to get that to work but I'm not to bothered about that, I also carry a paper map of the area, still folded as bought.
I'm sure it can and will get better if help them and not keep moaning at them, give more encouragement, as you say Garmen has had ten years to get it nearly right.

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