My Karoo Test Journal

Chat about Hammerhead's Karoo in general.
JohnJ80
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Re: My Karoo Test Journal

Post by JohnJ80 » Tue May 15, 2018 5:13 pm

Scummer wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 3:42 pm
Steve wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 2:17 pm
Interesting that your elevation is quite good, drisotope. Mine has been terrible ever since the last upgrade. Apparently today I did 72,000 feet of climbing and 63,000 feet of descending. That's despite me manually setting the correct altitude right at the start.
I have the same issue with the climbing and descending amount. But I see that as the error from the altimeter going to 0 once the auto pause hits. I have looked with Golden Cheetah at the FIT file and it clearly shows the altitude going to 0m once stopped. So, that's a drop from 1100m to 0m in less than a few seconds and back up to 1100m once I started moving again.
Take a look at this:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=200&start=20#p1244
I think this was great work by scummer. I wish I could find it, but Raveen had posted some information about what was choking the GPS engine was to get a zero'ed out lat/lon. I'm wondering if this isn't part of that same problem when it gives position data that is either zero or makes no sense. If true, setting autopause to off would be basically eliminating one of the cases where this happens.

Two more days and we supposedly get a new update. Fingers crossed on this one.

J.

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drisotope
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Re: My Karoo Test Journal

Post by drisotope » Fri May 18, 2018 9:34 pm

Had a few uneventful rides during the past week, shorter 20-40 mile stuff, and aside from some wacky battery drain behavior, the Karoo did fine. With no changes to settings, I would get anywhere from 11% to 24% battery drain per hour. Clearly something is going on inside the unit that we don't know about.

This morning I knew the Karoo would be on for an extended period of time, so I turned wifi, cellular, and adaptive brightness off. Had brightness set to maybe 40%, and I guess I could have gone a good bit brighter. Total elapsed time 5.29.47, and the Karoo used just 42% of the battery-- that's just 7.6% per hour. They really, really need to sort Adaptive Brightness, because I really like it, and as it stands now really need to keep it turned off.

Edge 520 / Karoo

Moving Time
3.31.25 / 3.34.48
Distance
57.75 miles / 58.15 miles
Avg. Speed
16.4mph / 16.2mph
Elapsed Time
5.29.46 / 5.29.47
Elevation
1,375ft / 1,308ft (Strava corrected to 1,463ft)
Weighted Avg. Pwr
196W / 194W
Total Work
2,093kJ / 2,089kJ
Avg. Cadence
76rpm / 77rpm

As to be expected, the auto-pause continues it's pokey behavior, adding about a minute per hour, almost right on 3 seconds per stop, so I guess I came to a stop 60-65 times. This is still on 1.5.19, as I have no intentions of updating right now. My Karoo has been stable (never once spontaneously rebooted since update) battery life is good enough with Adaptive turned off, and I don't really need TBT right now. I'm probably holding out for whatever comes after 1.5.38.

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drisotope
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Re: My Karoo Test Journal

Post by drisotope » Sat May 19, 2018 8:00 pm

Did a short 22-mile route today using a downloaded route, and it worked just fine. No problems. I'm thinking about doing my ride tomorrow with auto-pause switched off to see if there's any noticeable difference on the Strava upload, as Strava apparently uses it's own juju to determine moving time, independent of what the device has for paused time... so I kinda want to find out if that's true. I sure hope it is. It would save me a lot of problems.

JohnJ80
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Re: My Karoo Test Journal

Post by JohnJ80 » Sat May 19, 2018 8:31 pm

Auto pause is hosed up. Still give me WFI errors and probably hoses up other stuff too. Leaving it off and letting Strava sort it out is a better solution.

In general, I really don't see navigation as functional. I'm not going to use it anymore until they get it fixed properly. Last time I tried to add a route mid ride and it crashed my Karoo into a locked up "Saving" loop.

J.

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drisotope
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Re: My Karoo Test Journal

Post by drisotope » Fri May 25, 2018 9:59 pm

Haven't updated in a bit, because all of the rides have been pretty run-of-the-mill stuff, and I'm still resisting the update to 1.5.38, as it doesn't really seem to do anything that would be of value to me. I thought this morning's effort would be a good one, because I rode with my wife, so I have THREE data sources to compare. And while it may be slightly better in the newest software (which I doubt) 1.5.19 was without question one of the worst software updates I've ever seen, on any device or platform. Talk about botching it.

Edge 520 / Karoo / Edge 500

Moving Time
1.41.58 / 1.42.38 / 1.43.00
Distance
25.33 miles / 25.32 miles / 25.45 miles
Avg. Speed
14.9mph / 14.8mph/ 14.8mph
Elapsed Time
2.38.30 / 2.38.30/ 2.37.38
Elevation
633ft / 620ft* / 689ft (*Strava corrected to 697ft)
Weighted Avg. Pwr
148W / 148W / N/A
Total Work
736kJ / 735kJ / N/A
Avg. Cadence
73rpm / 74rpm

Shortest distance of the three, even if it's by the tiniest of margins? Karoo. Least elevation gain? Karoo. I've come to look at battery life in terms of total elapsed time-- even if the screen is off, the unit is still churning away. Viewed in that light, I'm still getting that 10% per hour, sometimes a little better, sometimes a little worse. But the stats recording, it's all over the place. Sometimes it's 2% above the Garmin, sometimes it's dead on, but each ride this week it's gotten worse-- it was a few dozen feet short of the Garmin yesterday, and Wednesday I climbed 6,000ft-- the Karoo trailed the Garmin by almost 200ft.

All fingers crossed for the next "update."

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drisotope
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Karoo was thirsty today

Post by drisotope » Mon May 28, 2018 2:39 am

As has become the norm with my Karoo, every ride brings something different. I make no changes of any kind-- just start the activity and go, and the results are different pretty much every time. Last ride I compared, the Karoo came in last for distance, elevation, average speed, everything. Today, just the opposite. Battery life was unimpressive at best-- total elapsed time of 2h25m, and the Karoo sucked down a full 30% of the battery, from 48% to 18%. That's a smidge over 12% per hour, which is downright thirsty for having adaptive brightness turned off.

Edge 520 / Karoo

Moving Time
2.17.18 / 2.19.02
Distance
44.24 miles / 44.62 miles
Avg. Speed
19.3mph / 19.3mph
Elapsed Time
2.25.14 / 2.25.12
Elevation
1,096ft / 1,338ft
Weighted Avg. Pwr
224W / 223W
Total Work
1,581kJ / 1,591kJ
Avg. Cadence
85rpm / 85rpm

In some small defense of the Garmin, I did ride along with it paused for something around a minute... which come to think of it, not a defense of the Edge. The buttons are so sensitive to being pressed, I accidentally brushed my hand against the 520 and paused it. I only randomly happened to look down and notice it was paused. Not the first time that has happened, to be sure. No idea as to why the battery was dropping so fast. Yesterday's ride was of similar duration, but consumed 24% of the battery, so at least 20% better. It's bizarre. I'm still not complaining, though-- at it's worst, the Karoo will go for ~7 hours, and I've got backup batteries on both bikes. I need to try doing a ride with the screen turned off to get an idea of how long I can really squeeze out of the internal battery.

JohnJ80
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Re: My Karoo Test Journal

Post by JohnJ80 » Mon May 28, 2018 11:46 am

I’d bet the battery issue is fuel gauge software not actual discharge rate problems.

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drisotope
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Re: My Karoo Test Journal

Post by drisotope » Mon May 28, 2018 6:20 pm

I absolutely would not rule that out. Seeing as battery life varies from ride to ride, seemingly independent of what sensors are attached or what brightness level is chosen, I have wondered if it is the life reported by the Karoo and not the actual condition of the battery.

I have found conclusively that the charge rate for the Karoo is determined by the cable you use-- I have some 6' cables so I can charge components without taking them off of the bike, and the Karoo would sometimes take as long as 3 hours to charge. I plugged it into some short, maybe 18" cable (I think it says Logitech on it, so maybe from a keyboard?) and the Karoo charges almost 2X as fast. That same 6' cable charges everything else just fine. I had gotten used to quick charge times due to the tiny battery in the Edge 520-- from dead, it will charge in barely an hour.

JohnJ80
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Re: My Karoo Test Journal

Post by JohnJ80 » Tue May 29, 2018 12:06 am

I would think the charge rate could also be the fuel gauge again. Only way to really tell if the charge rates differ is to put one of those usb ammeters in the line. That would tell the story for sure.

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drisotope
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Re: My Karoo Test Journal

Post by drisotope » Thu May 31, 2018 1:46 pm

Last night, purely by coincidence, I learned what happens when the Wahoo Speed sensor battery dies mid-ride. The Karoo's speed readout goes a little kooky, but when viewing the screen, everything looks fine. The Garmin goes absolutely bonkers. Speed would jump back and forth between 4mph and 55-59mph, and it would auto-pause and restart dozens of times. But the Garmin was still tracking. During the ~30 minutes it took the battery to finally die, the Karoo logged 7 miles, and the Garmin recorded 11-- aaaand, the Karoo logged another 3 minutes of moving time-- meaning any time I stopped while the sensor was dying, the Karoo just kept going. So apparently, with a sensor connected, whenever the Karoo "loses" the sensor for a moment, it simply defaults to zero, but not stopped. Like, not moving, but not stopped either. Schrodinger's GPS. The Garmin must fill in the blanks with GPS. The Strava upload just smoothed the peaks right off-- Garmin Connect still shows a max speed of 70.2mph. :lol:

Unsurprisingly, once the battery died, the two computers agreed with one another... almost completely. The displayed speed would vary between the two unless moving at a steady state, and the time for the Karoo to get to speed lagged significantly behind the Garmin. So this was the first time I've used the Garmin to upload to Strava in almost 2 months. It was certainly a unique situation which I doubt will happen again, but it was interesting to see how two computers handled it so differently.

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Steve
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Re: My Karoo Test Journal

Post by Steve » Thu May 31, 2018 2:03 pm

drisotope wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 1:46 pm
Schrodinger's GPS.
:D

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drisotope
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Re: My Karoo Test Journal

Post by drisotope » Thu May 31, 2018 9:44 pm

Did the double update this morning, back-to-back 1.5.38 and 1.5.75. Without question, the best Karoo performance to date. I was on a recovery day so I rode the partsbin bike (no PWR/cadence) and I don't know if that contributed at all, but the battery life was phenomenal. Total elapsed time of around 3 hours (screen on time of 1h47m,) and used just 13% of the battery. That is amazing. I pushed the limit and even did a pin-drop route creation from the LBS to home, and that worked perfectly. I forgot that I had switched TBT off long ago, so it was breadcrumb trail for the last ~6 miles home, but it went without a hitch. I probably won't find out haw the Karoo plays with the power2max (it was pretty good before) until the weekend, but I'm actually looking forward to it, not worried about the outcome as I was with previous 1.5 builds.

Might do a route creation for Saturday and see how that turns out.

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Steve
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Re: My Karoo Test Journal

Post by Steve » Fri Jun 01, 2018 7:13 am

That's promising about the battery life.

JohnJ80
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Re: My Karoo Test Journal

Post by JohnJ80 » Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:08 pm

How did you get TbT to stay switched off over a reboot? I don’t want TbT but just the path. Every time I set that off it turns on again after the reboot.

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drisotope
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Re: My Karoo Test Journal

Post by drisotope » Sat Jun 02, 2018 1:59 am

Mine actually stayed off during the update-- blew my mind. First update yet where nothing went missing (bike profile, rider height, offline maps, etc.)

Gonna be a bigger day tomorrow, all my fingers are crossed.

nordog
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Re: My Karoo Test Journal

Post by nordog » Sat Jun 02, 2018 7:14 am

Good luck.

JohnJ80
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Re: My Karoo Test Journal

Post by JohnJ80 » Sat Jun 02, 2018 5:13 pm

drisotope wrote:
Sat Jun 02, 2018 1:59 am
Mine actually stayed off during the update-- blew my mind. First update yet where nothing went missing (bike profile, rider height, offline maps, etc.)
I just tested this. For the life of me I can't get navigation cues to stay off. Not sure how you did this.

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drisotope
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Re: My Karoo Test Journal

Post by drisotope » Sun Jun 03, 2018 2:21 am

Through inaction! With every update, the Karoo gets more "individual." I read report after report of people having nothing but headaches with WiFi downloads, offline maps, etc, etc-- and I don't have any of those issues. Just lucky, I guess. The universe finds balance-- I've cut/punctured/killed 5 tires already this year, and we're not even halfway through. Glass took one out today, a tire with a whopping 430 miles on it-- lasted 3 and a half weeks. Had to boot and tube it to make it the 15 miles to the LBS and pick up a new tire. Only thing I had on-hand to boot? A $20 bill.

I've only been riding about 3.5 years. I've gone through at least 25 tires.

Today the Karoo went out for 75 miles, 4h32m moving time, 6h06m total time, and used 57% of the battery, which is pretty darn good. Anything better than 10% per hour of elapsed I'm okay with. Auto-pause was reasonably well behaved, as I had to stop a whole damn lot. Karoo still under-reporting elevation by a fair bit, but everything else was well behaved. Average power is low, and I dunno if that's due to riding with my wife for the first 30 miles, or because the update whacked-out the power2max. Zoomed way in the numbers look pretty good, no dropouts or flat-spots, so I think it was likely just much lower intensity than the past couple days. I'll know for sure when I put in a more consistent effort sometime next week. Tomorrow will be an easy one. The heat really got me today.

nordog
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Re: My Karoo Test Journal

Post by nordog » Sun Jun 03, 2018 9:29 am

My Karoo worked well as I left it recording what my bike & I did most of yesturday, it was switched on at 08:45 & turned off at15:55. With rides & some or long stops from a minute to 45 minutes or more. Recorded every move of the bike or me. As for up loading of routes etc no problems at all very fast ether way, just the tbt is way to early shows up to 8 turns that was not for me before the correct turn for me to ride.

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drisotope
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Re: My Karoo Test Journal

Post by drisotope » Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:50 pm

Sometimes, when I can't think of where to ride on a given day, I look at the ride I did on the same day in years past. Looked up the ride from this time last year, and thought, "Hey, I should make a TBT route out of it, might be a good test subject." So I took the activity from last year (50.3 miles, 1,541ft) on Strava into the "Create Route" mode, and the output was 51.45 miles with 1,749ft. Ah, the good old Edge 520. Robbing me 2.5% distance and 12% elevation since mid-2015.

I will shortly see how the Karoo fares on the same course.

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