New Ride app

Chat about Hammerhead's Karoo in general.
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Steve
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New Ride app

Post by Steve » Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:21 am

Anyone tried the new Ride app in the 1.5.237.3 update? The one that changes the interface, and you have to specifically start recording etc.

I'll be trying mine on Sunday, and just wondered if anyone had any things to look out for.

*Edit - ok, my misunderstanding, it doesn't change the interface in the way that I meant.

Ian
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Re: New Ride app

Post by Ian » Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:59 am

Well, at first sight I didn't like it and now, having tried it, I like it even less. You press Start and it doesn't start? That makes absolutely no sense.

Here's how it goes:
  • press top left to switch on the screen
  • tap the bike icon in the yellow bar at the bottom
  • tap START (it hasn't started yet)
  • tap the green bar at the top of the screen or press the top right button to start the ride
That's a total of four taps or presses, three if you don't count switching on the screen. Too many!

I set off this morning on a shopping trip around town and I was sure I had done all that before starting out. My main display shows speed, cadence, HR, ride time and distance and I rarely look at the last two in ride. I can't swear that they were updating while I was riding. After a few miles, I had to pause it to buy some tickets. I have auto pause set but paused it manually so when I looked at the screen I didn't see the ride information as it was obscured by the pop up menu. When I got back on the bike, I tapped Resume as I normally do. As soon as the data screen came up, I noticed that the ride time and distance were both zero - I'd lost the first part of the trip.

The strange thing is that, when I did exactly the same thing before going in to a shop to buy food, I was able to resume as normal and the ride distance and time continued to go up. When I got home and went on to the Dashboard, the ride started at the ticket office and not at home, and the Strava ride showed the same thing.

The only thing I can think of is that I must have pressed or tapped to start the ride and then pressed again to pause it, though I have just tried that at home and it's obvious that it's paused because there are two grey vertical bars over the display.

I can't think for the life of me why they have changed the method of starting to record a ride. On reflection, maybe it's in advance of Karoo sensing movement and asking if you want to start, a feature trailed in the blog announcing the update. The blog says it is to allow users to set up sensors etc before setting off and I have run into occasional problems with my cadence sensor not being detected so I have to stop after a short distance when I notice that the cadence display is blank and mess about with the Sensors app. The new approach would allow me to spin the cranks and see if there's a cadence display before setting out. I can see the utility of that for a race situation but you're going to warm up for a race and you would check all that during the warm up.

My Garmin does it this way:
  • press Power
  • wait for ages for it to find satellites
  • press Start
What's wrong with that? Karoo used to substitute 'wait for ages' with 'tap the button with the arrow in it' which was a more than acceptable compromise given that it picks up the GPS signal straight away. An even better idea would be to able to start a ride straight from the home screen so one press to switch on, one press or tap to go.

This update is, in my opinion, a backward step.

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Steve
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Re: New Ride app

Post by Steve » Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:44 am

I just had a quick try and this isn't what I expected at all. I thought it was going to include the new UI but it doesn't.

All it seems to do is to require another button press before it starts recording. It feels pretty odd. Thanks for your first impressions, Ian. I'll be trying mine in anger on Sunday, and hoping that I remember to press the button to start recording! At least there's a green bar at the top of the screen as a reminder, but the colours seem all wrong - why isn't it a red reminder and then perhaps change the colour of the TBT bar. Green means "go", doesn't it?

Steinello
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Re: New Ride app

Post by Steinello » Fri Sep 14, 2018 1:34 pm

... another issue - I compare the response of the compass between the Karoo- and the Komoot-Software.
... no change - the Komoot-Software recognize every movement without delay - the Karoo-Software
still seems not to use the internal compass !? - you can turn the Karoo without any effect on the screen.

nordog
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Re: New Ride app

Post by nordog » Sat Sep 15, 2018 8:39 am

This my map of yesterday's Shopping ride, never touched the pause button I just leave that on auto. See the Avenue Surgery, opposite is the Library that is my stop for about twenty minutes or so.
The attachment Friday Shop ride.PNG is no longer available
Friday Shop ride.PNG
Friday Shop ride.PNG (942.02 KiB) Viewed 194 times
By the way this ride was after the update, some how I got the start correct.
Last edited by nordog on Sun Sep 16, 2018 11:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

nordog
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Re: New Ride app

Post by nordog » Sat Sep 15, 2018 8:46 am

One map at a time.
Avenue Surgery.PNG
Avenue Surgery.PNG (415.98 KiB) Viewed 193 times

nordog
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Re: New Ride app

Post by nordog » Sat Sep 15, 2018 4:35 pm

The worst ride in over five months with my Karoo, I thought I had it on start the ride, even seen the route at the first stop but some we on the ride it stopped recording & must have deleted my ride, never happened before. Gutted.

JohnJ80
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Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2018 4:55 pm

Re: New Ride app

Post by JohnJ80 » Sun Sep 16, 2018 12:45 am

I just used it for the first time today. I don't think the concept is an issue but, again, their implementation is just a POS.

1. The screen where you select the route and page set looks an awful lot like you're starting the Karoo. It ought to be explicit that you're selecting the page set and route. Garmin does something similar, but much more obviously, in the Edge 1000. Very confusing - easy to see where even an experienced user would think they started recording. Then, if it did start, how do you confirm that? Only way I can find is either go to a side loaded application or to the settings page and see if there is a yellow bar on top.

2. The thin green start bar at the top. Totally not clear what it is for or why it's there. If you happen to have glasses and you're not wearing them, the fine print is so small - and the element is so unlike anything else in the interface that demands attention - that it is very easy to miss. Really a lousy interface element.

3. All other bike computers that I have used (Garmin, Wahoo) allow you to see if sensors are working and then come up with a large screen covering button that asks you if you want to start recording once the computer determines you are actually riding. Pretty hard to miss that and it's a cognitive choice to not record.

So, somehow, Hammerhead has once again managed to find the one way that anyone who every has ridden a bicycle with a computer would NOT expect the user interface to behave. I just don't get it - have these guys every used a bike computer before? More basically, have they ever ridden a bike before? It's amazing to me how a software team "focused on making the worlds best bike computer" manages to screw up basic things so routinely.

I apologize for the rant - it's just that they do this sort of thing every time. They are wasting precious time that they need to use to make significant forward progress before the competition decides to wipe them out. Instead they are still screwing around with stuff that they should have gotten right at launch back in April.

j.
Last edited by JohnJ80 on Sun Sep 16, 2018 3:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

Brian
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Location: Altamont, New York, USA

Re: New Ride app

Post by Brian » Sun Sep 16, 2018 1:12 am

No apology necessary, J. More than six months ago I ended one of my first posts with, "it's as if these guys have never ridden a bike or used a bike computer before".

Looks like my comments is as applicable today as it was then.

nordog
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Re: New Ride app

Post by nordog » Sun Sep 16, 2018 10:23 am

I'm very sorry to say but I agree with JohnJ80, by the time I got to start my ride yesterday I had forgotten the new sequence. There nothing wrong with the old sequence. Is there a way to revert it back?

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Steve
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Re: New Ride app

Post by Steve » Sun Sep 16, 2018 1:43 pm

Strange, my ride worked fine with the new version (using the hardware button to start recording).

But I agree it's completely counter-intuitive. Ok, so you press the Start button and it doesn't start but you get a nice green (means go, right?) bar. You then have to press a different button to make it start. Riiiiiiiiiiiiight ...

Who on earth thinks of this stuff?

RustedRoot
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Re: New Ride app

Post by RustedRoot » Sun Sep 16, 2018 3:11 pm

So happy I didn't install last two updates.

Riddle me this: How is this company still in business? Greater fool theory?

nordog
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Re: New Ride app

Post by nordog » Sun Sep 16, 2018 5:08 pm

Did a test walk and that was OK
Screenshot_20180916-173648.png
Screenshot_20180916-173648.png (1.05 MiB) Viewed 110 times
Worked perfectly but I am still not so happy. Just had a closer look at the route, it had a delayed start, I started my Karoo at the point of the finish?

JohnJ80
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Re: New Ride app

Post by JohnJ80 » Sun Sep 16, 2018 6:43 pm

RustedRoot wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 3:11 pm
So happy I didn't install last two updates.

Riddle me this: How is this company still in business? Greater fool theory?
The two updates are better in terms of stability. Those updates were a total disaster for me. Necessitates a hard reset and wipe of storage to get it to work in its normal funky state.

You theory is the leading candidate right now.

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ddimick
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Re: New Ride app

Post by ddimick » Tue Sep 18, 2018 2:41 pm

I suspect it required a lot under the hood to make a ride distinct from a route. I'm not overly concerned about an extra tap to start recording. I'd like to see more meaningful features, like the long-promised Strava live segments.

JohnJ80
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Re: New Ride app

Post by JohnJ80 » Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:05 pm

Which begs the question “why were rides so tightly coupled to routes in the first place?” Another one of those UI pieces that makes one wonder if (a) they ever use this themselves or (b) are they actually cyclists?

J.

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